RNC finale: Unprecedented police riot against peaceful protesters & journalists
The jail vigil needs more support. Perhaps the National Guard will finally go away?
We @ TC-IMC are all pretty tired, but everyone - including our friends from out of town - are all safe and accounted for, though some still face charges. Of course, the Republicans couldn't end their eight-year reign of state terrorism without dumping it all over our fair cities - beginning with the Friday night Convergence Center raid, the thundering Saturday raids, the Monday journalist beatdowns, the Tuesday concussion grenades, the intentional bottling up of the RATM fans on Wednesday night, and finally on Thursday night, a big stupid fracas instigated wholly by the police for no particular reason.
On Thursday night, parents across the Twin Cities are incensed that their peaceful children have been detained on totally spurious charges, fabricated to justify the concussion grenades, tear gas and pepper spray, thrown around like this state has never seen. There weren't hordes of window-breakers, just lots of people who got stiffed on getting damn protest permits (who the hell was running that system? Sure you'll get a medal.)
Fortunately for decent folk, it appears they went way too far: even Tom Lyden on Fox9 said that it was like a police state, and after playing clips of massive, unwarranted pepper spraying, he concluded his segment by saying that they'd be looking into a blue ribbon panel to see what the hell happened. When you've lost Fox News on the final night of the RNC.... well, some things just can't be spun.
Legal observers on-scene were incensed that they were directed to move to safety in one direction, then they themselves got arrested. The police couldn't control their horses, which shit all over the place.
Kare11's cameraman got arrested (has been released), WCCO's cameraman Tom Aviles got arrested, Pioneer Press' Ben Garvin got detained for two hours and shot one hell of a video. In particular, the WCCO footage is possibly the strongest we've yet seen from a corporate source!
Are we really seeing this? http://wcco.com/video/?id=47039@wcco.dayport.com
Pioneer Press' Ben Garvin http://www.twincities.com/video?bcpid=1653590799&bclid=1755456983&bctid=...
PioPress http://www.twincities.com/rnc/ci_10385049
Uptake's Susan gets detained http://the-uptake.groups.theuptake.org/en/videogalleryView/id/725/
More: http://flickr.com/photos/theuptake/
Tony Webster's response to the police chief's email to him: http://wtf.mn/u/a602a5
Meanwhile Code Pink managed to mess up John McCain's whole speech via some banners. Way to go! That's it for now - we need to rest.
Tomorrow Mayor Coleman will have to answer for the abused journalists, the hordes of arrested demonstrators, the edgy mess of a town we've got. A week from now, it'll feel like some strange dream, a hangover from the new world order/police state that awaits us, if this kind of madness is not stopped once and for all.


Comments
Disclaimer: I am not an
Disclaimer: I am not an anarchist, nor do I support violence as a means of making a point.
@ the first anonymous poster: last time I checked, the Constitution was the supreme law of the land. and last time I checked, there's freedom of assembly somewhere in there... maybe in the First Amendment?
Why don't YOU go back to your nice house in the suburbs, watch Desperate Housewives and continue ignoring the fact that you live in a federal nanny state where peaceful dissent is met with teargas.
Sucks to be stereotyped, doesn't it?
For Your Viewing Pleasure
Free speech zones (also known as First Amendment Zones, Free speech cages, and Protest zones) are areas set aside in public places for political activists to exercise their right of free speech in the United States. The First Amendment to the United States Constitution states that "Congress shall make no law... abridging... the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression.
Edwards v. South Carolina, Brown v. Louisiana, Cox v. Louisiana, and Adderley v. Florida - found that picketing is afforded less protection than pure speech due to the physical externalities it creates. Regulations on demonstrations may affect the time, place, and manner of those demonstrations, but may not discriminate based on the content of the demonstration.
I agree with you but the
I agree with you but the point about free speech zones means that there were permitted places and times for people to protest.
Permitted protest? That's
Permitted protest? That's something of an oxymoron.
exactly.
exactly.
" The existence of free
" The existence of free speech zones is based on U.S. court decisions stipulating that the government may regulate the time, place, and manner—but not content—of expression."
True as far as times and routes. I really had no problem with groups that then illegally violated the routes and times. They did what they did and the police did (rightfully)arrest those that refused to go away, but again, unlike the anarchist, they exercised peaceful civil disobediance. There's a place for that. I see no good place for breaking windows and destroying property.
What an Irrational Failure of Perspective
You condemn vandalism on the part of a very small handful of demonstrators, who history advises were probably mostly government-sponsored provocateurs, while implicitly condoning violence by armed and armored riot police against unarmed, peaceful demonstrators.
http://twincities.indymedia.org/2008/sep/coverage-poor-peoples-march-and...
Exactly. People should not
Exactly. People should not have to be permitted or told where and when they can protest.
Limitations on Freedom of Speech
The freedom of speech is not absolute. Legal systems, and society at large, recognize limits on the freedom of speech, particularly when freedom of speech conflicts with other values or rights. [12] Exercising freedom of speech always takes place within a context of competing values. Limitations to freedom of speech may follow the "harm principle" or the "offense principle", for example in the case of pornography or "hate speech".[13] Limitations to freedom of speech may occure through legal sanction and/or social disapprobation.[14]
In "On Liberty" (1978) John Stuart Mill argued that "...there ought to exist the fullest liberty of professing and discussing, as a matter of ethical conviction, any doctrine, however immoral it may be considered."[15] Mill argues that the fullest liberty of expression is required to push arguments to their logical limits, rather than the limits of social embarrassment. However, Mill also introduced what is known as the harm principle, in placing the following limitation on free expression: "the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others."[16]
In 1985 Joel Feinberg introduced what is known as the "offence principle", arguing that Mill's harm principle does not provide sufficient protection against the wrongful behaviours of others. Feinberg wrote "It is always a good reason in support of a proposed criminal prohibition that it would probably be an effective way of preventing serious offense (as opposed to injury or harm) to persons other than the actor, and that it is probably a necessary means to that end."[17] Hence Feinberg argues that the harm principle sets the bar too high and that some forms of expression can be legitimately prohibited by law because they are very offensive. But, as offending someone is less serious than harming someone, the penalties imposed should be higher for causing harm.[18] In contrast Mill does not support legal penalties unless they are based on the harm principle.[19] Because the degre to which people may take offense varies, or may be the result of unjustified prejudice, Feinberg suggests that a number of factors need to be taken into account when applying the offense principle, including: the extent, duration and social value of the speech, the ease with which it can be avoided, the motives of the speaker, the number of people offended, the intensity of the offense, and the general interest of the community at large.[20]
Liberal democracies have varying approaches to balance the right of freedom of speech with other values and principles. For instance, the United States First Amendment theoretically grants absolute freedom, placing the burden upon the state to demonstrate when (if) a limitation of this freedom is necessary. Many liberal democracies recognized that restrictions should be the exception and free expression the rule.[citation needed]
Limitations on freedom of speech may include:
* Defamation (slander and libel)
* Product defamation (criticism of commercial products; sometimes called product libel or product disparagement; for example, the Texas False Disparagement of Perishable Food Products Act)
* Obscenity
* Threats
* Lying in court (perjury)
* Talking out of turn during a trial, or talk that causes contempt of court
* Speaking about a trial outside the court room after the judge forbids it (sub judice).
* Speaking publicly without a permit
* Speaking publicly outside of a free speech zone
* Limits on the size of public demonstrations
* Profanity
* Hate speech that is defamatory or causes incitement to violence
* Noise pollution
* Speech that contains a copyright infringement
* Company secrets (trade secrets), such as how a product is made or company strategy (Example: Eleven herbs and spices of KFC chicken)
* Political secrets: campaign strategies, dirty past/deeds of a politician, etc.
* Classified information: sensitive or secret to protect the national interest.[1]
* Sedition: speech or organization (vs Freedom of Assembly) that is deemed as tending toward insurrection against the established order. Sedition often includes subversion of a constitution and incitement of discontent (or resistance) to lawful authority. Sedition may include any commotion, though not aimed at direct and open violence against the laws.
* Treason: to talk publicly of the death of all countrymen or the overthrow of the government
* Blasphemy is illegal in several Western and Muslim countries (freedom of religion as well as speech could be given here)
* The first clause of UK's Terrorism Act 2006 punishes "Encouragement of terrorism" with up to seven years in jail.
* In some European countries, Holocaust denial is a criminal offence. A prominent proponent of this view, David Irving, was sentenced for 3 years in Austria for denying the Holocaust in February, 2006.
* In many countries, public school teachers have limited freedom of speech, both on and off the job, regarding certain issues (e.g., homosexuality).
Post your source !
It's wonderful that you can copy and paste, perhaps you might try providing a link to the entire source you are pasting from...you know, for context.
Nevermind
I'll provide your source for you
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_of_speech
Offense principle? Sedition?
"Sedition"? Anybody could be accused of that without deserving it, depending on the mood of the accuser in this word-twisting society. It's funny the Founding Fathers would have countenanced "sedition" as a limited type of speech since they themselves were accused of that by the British. I don't really believe it.
As to the guy "introducing the offence principle" in 1985, that is not a legal principle; that's some jerk's essay that has no legal standing. Why you bring it up, i have no idea but we absolutely have the right to offend each other. Anyone can say they are offended by some word or other. What you should not do however is terrorize another person; that is a harm. Speech intended to harass or terrorize is harm, which is different from mere offensiveness. The offence principle could be used to say somebody wants to jail some right wing loonie holding up a photo of an aborted fetus to attack Roe v. Wade. None of us would think it's right to arrest such a person just because they offended someone.
So I don't buy into the sentence on the offense principle or some of the other claims about sedition. This nation has no right to start turning into a police state. We are losing our democracy.
Speaking publicly without a permit
Doesn't having a permit to publicly speak contradict the point of free speach? Is our society so far gone that we need a permit just to speak to the public? This makes me wonder if when the 08 candidates make their speaches do they have permits? Think about it.
a lot of those conditions
a lot of those conditions you listed where put into place after 1900, when our country was afraid of the various new economic and political ideas were being thought up.
for example, there was the alien and sedition acts that were passed not long after the start of our country, but were deemed unconstitutional by one of my favorite presidents, thomas jefferson.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alien_and_Sedition_Acts_of_1798
they eventually expired, only to be replaced by the WW1 era laws:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Espionage_Act_of_1917
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sedition_Act_of_1918
the espionage act is still in existence, and if theres anyone who should currently be tried on it they should be the idiots in the CIA who used known falsified information to get us into iraq so that they can recieve a nice big fat bonus at the end of the year..
and the sedition act was ruled unconstitutional, which really isnt much of a surprise.
unless you can provide a reputable link (wikipedia is ok, as long as theres a footnote link to it), there is no federal law against public speech. only state laws, which in my opinion are often times unconstitutional.
Macy's
What happened with the blond haired man arrested on the lawn of the Capital. The paper said he was suspected of the Macy's window incident, however, I closely compared photos from the TV news site, and his haircut was substantially different. He could have gotten his hair trimmed during the previous 24 hours, but his facial wrinkles and shape of head were also different. I don't think it was the same man.
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